|  |
| 2009-02-26 13:50 |
| Notes about LOST (5.7)- "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" |
| Public |
| Toledo, OH |
 hungry |
| William Elliot Whitmore- "Lifetime Underground" |
Greetings everybody!! Really great episode last night and that gave us some INSANE and shocking moments. So many questions were raised with this episode, so let's get to it. And MANY MANY thanks to LOST CUBIT, Getlostpodcast, and Lostmedia for their kick ass pictures/screencaps!!
- The beginning of the episode opened up with Cesar rummaging through what looked to be an office. There was a Dharma binder with a squid on it; this gives the hint that Cesar was in the office of the Dharma station named: THE HYDRA.
We saw this station primarily in the early part of season 3 as this is where the Others kept Sawyer, Kate, and Jack. This is primarily a zoological station, where "they work." So, to me, this means that..............
- Locke, Ilana and the Ajira survivors are NOT on the island itself, but the Others island. At the beginning of the episode, we saw Locke look out across the ocean to the island.
I thought maybe at first this might have been a section of the island that wraps around and looks at itself, but judging from how far away Locke was, i'm thinking they're on the opposite island.
- Also, this might make sense as Sawyer and Co came across a few outriggers and some Ajira items on the beach. At the beginning of the episode, Ilana said that Frank and some other folks took one of the outriggers to the island.
You can see a few more here:
I'm thinking that some of the survivors took the outriggers from the others island, along with some supplies, and moved to the main island. And that's what Sawyer, Juliet, and Co found.
- Going off this though, if they crashed during the time of dharma and are at the zoological station, why is it pretty empty? Is it because on the main island, they're in dharma time and on the secondary island, they're in 2008? Also, why didn't Locke flash to the island with the rest of the 06?
My theory is that at the moment, the island does not need Ben or even Locke, but it DOES need the 06 to fix things up and get their time issues in order. Your thoughts?
- The notes that Cesar found ranged from notes on space and time and a map of the island. LOST CUBIT pointed out that this map is similar to Danielle's map that Sayid took from her bunker and that these notes are in fact Daniel's.
Map
And Dan's notes.
So, perhaps somebody (maybe even daniel during his dharma days?) brought his notes over to the Hydra. And perhaps maybe the same for Rousseau's map? I'm not sure.
There was also a copy of LIFE magazine, dated April 19th, 1954.
I browsed the web and found a brief summary of it: "Life Magazine April 19, 1954 : Color Cover - the awesome fireball. Color pictures of the Hydrogen test. Dave Beck, former boss of goons, emerges as labor’s new strong man. Neat full page Champions spark plug ad with Sam Hanks and his car. Full page Sacony clothing as with Eileen Carlson. From cheers to “phooey” for McCarthy. Striking two page color Buick car ad with one color page - yellow car on red background. Humorous land sale in Texas, Lazy C ranch, BenJack Cage, 2 square inches for 75 cents. Buffalo’s Cleveland Hill school fire traps pupils at music lesson, with photos of whole class plus Dennis Cervi, Michael Cody, Mr. and Mrs. Elmer Frank, Joseph O. DuPont, many died. Pictorial essay - a vision of Easter painted by William Blake. Feature on the spice Curry. Pictorial essay - World’s most exclusive clubmen. Oxford has 100th crewing boat race, includes many photos historic and current including J.J.H. Harrison, W. R. Marsh. Aviation - a new sight in soaring, new glider has engine and propeller - the Hummingbird, with Harry Perl and Ted Nelson. Life visits the best dressed woman in Brazil, Thereza Leite de Souza Campos. Dave Beck, boss of the Teamsters. Full page color Herbert Tareyton cigarette ad with Barbara and James Punderford."
LOST CUBIT pointed out that there is a pic of the creature from the Black Lagoon and that the blacklagoon is a "paradise that nobody returns from."
LOST-esque, wouldn't you say?
What stuck out to me is the HYDROGEN test as this makes me think about the hydrogen bomb, Jughead, that Faraday found on the island several episodes back.
There is also mention of a boat race and I couldn't help but think about Desmond and his boat race that brought him to the island.
- OH, and JOHN LOCKE IS ALIVE. It seems that his death (which i'll get to here soon, trust me) doesn't stop him from running around the island (maybe he can find Rose, Bernard and everybody else, but I digress). Perhaps the island really isn't done with John or perhaps the island has enough healing powers to bring people it selects back from the dead? Not too sure, but I am sure that Locke is alive.
- Plane "crash"- We know that Ajira flight 316 did go down, but it did not look really beaten up or even dented.
Perhaps the island gently brought it down cos Locke and Ben were on it? I'm not too sure, but if anything, it looks like Frank's piloting skills saved yet ANOTHER vehicle (like the helicopter in season 4).
- Locke's departure from the island mimics Ben's in that he also landed in the desert in Tunisia (this also begs the question: why Tunisia? Why shoot them to that spot? Anybody?).
Here we see Ben:
and i'm posting this gif cos I love it so dearly:
and here we have Locke
This time however, Widmore was waiting for any new arrival with a series of cameras and a crew to come and get him. He landed a few years into the future, more than likely December of 2007 (you can get this from the date on his passport), where Widmore showed him a newspaper from January 14th, 2005, that discusses the return of the O6.
Here we found out a lot more about Widmore and his relationship with Ben and the island. He told John that he was once the leader of the Others for three decades and Ben fooled Widmore and had him exiled off the island. We got some great discussion between the two of them about Locke meeting Widmore on the island back in 1954 when Widmore was 17, an incident that we saw a few weeks ago.
This to me was damn cool as it also showed how time is messing around on the island and since Locke just casually waltzed into their camp, Widmore NOW remembers. Too cool.
Also, I couldn't help but think about a young Mr. Eko when I saw those children playing soccer in the African desert.
and lastly, going off the idea that this is all a game of some sort, I couldn't help but feel that John was a pawn at this moment. We have Widmore using John (or even Ben using him too) to do something they both want. This could go along with what Desmond said that they're all pawns in a giant game and I felt that here as Locke was being moved around, trying to find the 06, like a chess pawn.
- We also got a look at John's new passport under his new name of Jeremy Bentham.
I loved this scene as it gave us a little chuckle about all the philosophical names on the show as Widmore stated that Bentham was a philosopher and that Locke's parents (well, we know it's just his mother) had a sense of humor and named him after a philosopher, so widmore was just following suit. It's a nice LOST geek inside joke.
Here's some info on Bentham:
Name: Jeremy Bentham
Birth: February 15, 1748 (London)
Death: June 6, 1832 (London)
School/tradition: Utilitarianism, Legal Positivist
Main interests: Political philosophy, Ethics, Economics
Notable ideas: greatest happiness principle
Influenced by: John Locke, David Hume."
According to wiki, Bentham was a man who proposed many legal and social reforms, but also stressed the importance of morals. What I just noticed is that his birthday is February 15th, 1748. If you look at Locke's fake passport, his birthday? February 15th, 1948. That's pretty funny stuff; same date, just waaaaaaaaay different year.
- Abbadon returns.....for a bit!- Our old pal Matthew Abaddon.
He's shown up on a few different occasions: hanging out with Hurley at the hospital (that Hurey talked about), pushing Locke around in his wheelchair, as well as instructing Naomi on Frank, Miles, Charlotte, and Daniel.
And some info on Matt to refresh your memory: For you Biblical folks, "Matthew" means "a gift from God" whereas Abaddon means "Angel of the Abyss" meaning a satanic creature/demon, Death or even Satan himself. Take that as you will.
I was REALLY VERY shocked to see him killed.
(insert zombie moan here)
When that happened, I said to myself, "yup, that's Ben's handywork" and sure enough, it was. Ben's a good shot though, i'll give him that.
- and speaking of Hurley, dude has some artistic talent! I do find it great that he's drawing what appears to be the Sphinx, which is in the Sahara Desert, where Locke and Ben both ended up after leaving the island.
- THEY TOOK MY BOY!- We saw another old pal tonight: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT!
It's great to see him again and I loved hearing Locke's theme music as the two saw each other. I always enjoyed the relationship between Locke and Walt as it's an interesting one. The name of his school, from what I can tell is Fieldcroft.
I couldn't find anything on it though.
It's sad that he doesn't know about his father though; and what's with his dreams? He said he dreamed that Locke was on a beach in a suit, surrounded by people that wanted to hurt him. the hell? Locke is wearing a suit right now on the beach, but things seem calm. Perhaps there is something coming? Which leads me to.......
- Widmore saying a war was coming?!?!?!?!? How??!?!?!? I really have no clue about this as if Widmore can't find the island, he can't send people there. Perhaps the islands inhabitants are going to attack again? But why would they kill Locke, their leader?!!? I had NO CLUE about this.
- Upon his return to the mainland, Locke discovered the tragedy that his love, Peggy Bund- I mean, HELEN NORWOOD had passed away.
I'll get to the dates on her grave under the NUMBERS section as always, but I couldn't help but wiki her last name and wouldn't you know, her last name NORWOOD, is also the last name of a Richard Norwood, a British mathematician that lived in the 17th century. He also a surveyor, meaning he did some traveling and documented the layout of islands (hehehe), and other lands. He also had a close friend by the name of John Goodwin.
This made me chuckle as Goodwin was the name of an Other, one that Ana Lucia ended up stabbing and this is the same gent that Juliet had an affair with.
- "work to do"- This phrase was repeated yet again, this time by Ben who told John that he had work to do. Taller Ghost Walt told this to John in the season 3 finale when John was about to kill himself in the Dharma grave. Ghost Ana-Lucia told Hurley the same thing when he was on the run with a drugged up Sayid. I do like how this phrase keeps popping up, as it's essentially the island's way of motivating people.
- if you look at nurseboard for Locke, it looks like the name of the Nurses aide is Weisinger.
I did some searches on other forms of it and came up empty, but under Weisinger, found a magazine by the name of THE TIME TRAVELLER, that was started in New Yorko city (where Locke's body was found) by the name of Mort Weisinger. Now, maybe I have the name wrong as i can't really make it out too well, but I think this is DEFINITELY a possibility. And of course, Time traveller is a nod to John and others who are jumping around through time.
- Skull!- Take a look at the desk that Cesar is looking through, you see the skull?
To me, this looks A LOT like a polar bear skull as we saw Charlotte finding a polar bear skull in Tunisia, possibly due to an experiment with the wheel and shooting things from the island?
- The name of the hardware store where Locke got his suicide gear appeared to have been named Angels Hardware.
LOST has lots of themes of religion and whatnot, and here is yet another nod to that.
- And the biggest HOLY CRAP moment of the night was undeniably Locke being murdered by Ben.
I don't know about you folks, but I was literally speechless during this entire sequence. There are some things here I want to talk about. The big one being WHY WOULD BEN DO THIS?!?!?!?
One theory that was pointed out to me was that the island won't let you kill yourself once you're off it and it still needs you. We saw this with Michael who was unable to kill himself when he got off the island. Others have suggested that since the island won't let you kill yourself, Ben had to do it for him. I've also heard that perhaps this is a christian-esque belief about suicide and how some view it as unacceptable and that's why Locke couldn't do it. I've ALSO read that Ben did this as he wants to lead the Others, but I don't buy this as if Ben did wnat to lead the Others, he would have just told John to shoot off the island via the donkey wheel.
and some are asking why Locke had to die at all and to this I saw: "it's all part of the plan." We saw after Locke saw Jack in the hospital, Jack booked a flight from LA to Sydney. So, i'm thinking that Locke was murdered perhaps a few weeks to a month after he saw Jack as Jack isn't at the level of crazy that he was when he tried to kill himself and found Locke's obituary. But as i've been saying, It's Locke's death that brings everybody back together and is the catalyst to the journey back to the island.
Also, did you notice that Ben killed Locke after he mentioned Hawking? He didn't look too pleased about Locke knowing about her (just how he looked displeased after Desmond was talking about her). Maybe Ben doesn't want anybody knowing about her, but everybody kinda does cos Widmore knows where she lives, but maybe he doesn't know she can get folks back to the island? Even though he did tell Locke she could help him. I dunno, but I couldn't help but notice that.
- Also, I have to get this off my chest: Kate needs to not talk for the rest of the season.
Seriously, I was so effin' PEEVED with her last night and lecturing Locke about how he doesn't love anybody and nobody loved him and blah blah blah. So, wait, the lying, cunning, and plotting murderer who jumped around from Jack to Sawyer to Jack and back again on the island AND played her boyfriend bank robber AND accidentally had a hand in getting her childhood sweetheart killed, suddenly has the right to talk to Locke like that?!!? BAH. I guess when you lie and psuedo steal a child you magically get a sense of rightousness about you, eh? /End Rant
THE NUMBERS 4 8 15 16 23 42
alright, I almost lost (pun) my mind trying to jot down and capture all of the freakin' license plates and numbers that popped up in this episode.
LICENSE PLATES- Locke and Matt drove around a slew of cars and I was able to capture some plates from them. Here they are one by one:
A427631- alright, so 4 is the obvious first one here, however if you add all of them up, you get 23!
SZU-766- S is the 19th letter of the alphabet, U is the 21st, Z is the 26th and final letter of the alphabet. I couldn't really derive much from this one aside from 7 times 6 is 42, so maybe that's a possibility? I dunno.
7PCI499- I'll start with the letters first: P is the 16th letter of the alphabet, so that's a match. C is the third letter, so no dice there, and I ninth letter, so nothing there. We also have 7, 4, 9, and 9. 4 is one of the numbers. I tried some more there, but didn't find much else.
The car that picked up Locke in the desert had the numbers: 342 6346.
Obvious thing first: we have 42. Again, I tried some random math and found nothing else.
so, if you have any other number-esque ideas with these license plates, let me know.
More numbers though!!
- Widmore said he met Locke when he was 17 (1+7=8, a number)
- Locke said he met Widmore 4 days ago
- On the front page of London Times Widmore gave John, we saw an article advertised for page 15; we also saw another at the bottom that said "Pages 14-16", with 16 directly mentioned.
Pic here:
- Bentham's fake date of birth is February 15th, 1948.
Pic again here:
- Widmore gave Locke and international phone and said to call "2-3" if he needed anything.
- Helen's tombstone gave us DOB as 6/30/1957 and DOD 4/8/2006. I couldn't get much for her DOB, but her date of death we have 4, 8, and if you add up the digits in the year, you get ANOTHER 8.
Edit: I forgot to mention this: in the previews for next weeks episode, we saw a hooded woman being unveiled by Sawyer. I'm throwing out a guess here of who it is and i'm going to say it's Annie, Ben's childhood friend. Don't ask me how, why, when, or anything else, it's just a gut feeling.
and I think that's it folks!! I'm off to have some much needed lunch. As always, feel free to leave comments, theories, and ideas and etc etc.! Have a good day/weekend!
'till next time true believers.
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-02-26 21:43 (UTC) |
| locke and ben |
"At the beginning of the episode, Ilana said that Frank and some other folks took one of the outriggers to the island."
Ilana actually said that the pilot and some woman took one of the outriggers during the night. I took this to mean that Frank and Sun were the two who left for the other island.
I realized that Ben would kill Locke as soon as Locke told him about Jin, and the ring. This was cemented when Locke mentioned Hawking. In my mind, up until that point, Ben needed Locke to help convince the O6 to go back, facilitating Ben's return. When he heard Jin was alive, he knew Sun would be going back, so he didn't need Locke to convince anyone. Then, Locke mentions that Hawking can get them back to the island, which Ben didn't seem to realize that John knew. Ben would not want anyone else to have this information.
Ben not only wants back on the island, but he wants to be the leader again. That wasn't happening with Locke returning alive. I'm not sure why Ben didn't think that Locke would be resurrected upon his return, though.
RE: Walt. It seemed like Locke was going to ask Walt to go back with him, but then changed his mind when he saw how happy Walt was.
I think Richard is one of the main keys to this story, but we know almost nothing about him. We know he doesn't seem to age. He has left the island at least twice before, to see Locke as a kid, and to recruit Juliet. Finally, he is always supporting the person he perceives as the leader of the others - he is never the leader.
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![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) whitebrowgigs |
| 2009-02-27 01:57 (UTC) |
| Re: locke and ben |
| Jin approved |
|
Ah, good thinking on Sun/Frank. It didn't even dawn on me that Sun could be going with him, but thinking about it, she probably would as she's trying to find Jin.
And again, good thinking with Ben and his manipulating. The thing is though it seems that the two main folks that would have something to gain from knowing about Hawking are Widmore and Ben and they both know about her, so why kill Locke? I'm still thinking it's because
A. he had to die to help bring the 06 together, and
B. he couldn't kill himself cos the island wouldn't let him.
I'm giving Ben the benefit of the doubt here....and i'll probably regret it. hahaha
Yeah, i'm curious to know if really EVERYBODY has to come back. That still isn't certain on who has to come back and whatnot. And i think since walt keeps dreaming about the island, it's telling him he ha to come back.
Richard does need to show up so he can really let us know WTF is going on and who is in charge of what. he'll be able to clear things up.
Thanks for reading!
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I'm still kind of speechless after this episode. So much crazy going on. This will definitely be a re-watch. That ben gif is ace haha.
I'm really wondering what they will do with the other people on the island. Like Ceasar and Ilana, etc.
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Maybe the new people on the island could very well end up being the new batch of Others? I don't see any reason to kill them, but i'm sure Ben will find some reason to kill if he finds it necessary.
And yeah, i'll be rewatching it this weekend. INSANE stuff. And that's one of my favorite LOST gifs. hehe
thanks for reading!
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-02-27 02:30 (UTC) |
| Pierre Chang Guy Returns |
Greetings My Friend:
I return first with an apology for "writing your eyes off last week." I also am imposing on myself a rule never to send more than 2 e-mails per episode. I hope I can get back into your good graces. I will never abuse the privilege again! Promise!
Before heading to last night, a quick off the subject question; Adrian Pasdar and Rahm Emanuel separated at birth?
I have to admit with being left rather cold with last night's episode. I am sure if you thought of me at all, you probably thought I would feel validated by last night's episode as proof of my "STRATEGO Theory." I was but still felt oddly unfulfilled! I realize last night was a "back story" episode, that did not bother me, Those who do not study history are due to repeat the mistakes. We also needed to find out the last leg of how the journey to the Island played out.
Again I have to praise you for being so detail oriented, you pointed out a LOT of stuff that I missed. I did see the show pretty late last night, so that may account for some of my disdain. Now that I have read your thoughts, I want to watch it again to see some of the things you pointed out! Like being on the other Island, very keen observation, I missed it totally!
That Life cover also looks a little like the Squid from Watchmen (not in the movie bummer!)Widmore made Locke 8 years older on his passport than his actual DOB 1956, I don't know if the Bentham connection you pointed out is the only reason, or if there is deeper significance.
Locke lost his facade last night. The tower of strength, man of action from the Island was replaced by the abandoned damaged person who went on the walkabout. Whether it was just the culmination of failing to convince any of the 6 to come back losing Helen (why Peg Bundy? why does she remind you of Katey Sagal?)seeing Mr. Creepy Abaddon shot (Who would you be more scared of in a dark alley Matthew or Dimitri? LOL)Or maybe the Island gave him the MOJO and it was lost back in the states? But he was a crushed man when Ben came!
I thought Ben would be involved in John's "death" but you may remember I had thought they had both concocted a plot (I brought up Sayid being stitched up by Linus in a vets office, thought Ben had injected John with something to simulate death) I was right about his involvement, but I too was speechless, and I think that is what led to my disappointment!
Lost does not usually give us Red Herrings, this seemed to be one. The Only possible reason I see for Linus to do a 180, is if the only reason Ben thought he needed John was to find out who the connection was. Once Ben told him it was Eloise, Ben no longer needed John. That is the only possible explanation I can come up with that does not feel contrived.
One thing you did not touch on was Locke telling Jack Christian said hello. That surprised me at first, but then I thought Locke would use what ever info he had to convince the 6 to go back. Locke was still convinced destiny was guiding them all. Jack said he did not buy it, but his voice and face betrayed him and Ben revealed that Jack had started his "Dark Thoughts journey" trying to get back to the Island.
Every episode can not be as good as the episodes that started the season were (Even Obama picked Geithner!) So I am sure next week will be back on course, as I wrote I am now going to watch it again armed with your thoughts and perhaps I will be more satisfied.
One last question; You mentioned last week you had thought the Massacre was in 1992 which would be after Danielle arrived, Are you remembering something I am forgetting?
Again Sir great job as always, and I hope I have earned another chance to correspond!
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| whitebrowgigs |
| 2009-02-27 04:17 (UTC) |
| Re: Pierre Chang Guy Returns |
| arrested lost |
hahaha the more theories and feedback the better!! and yeah, Adrian and Rahm look pretty similar! I gotta agree; I still need to watch HEROES from this week. And regarding WATCHMEN, I'm hearing good things about this new ending despite having objections to it. Even fanboys such as myself seem to be loving this flick, so i'm going into it expecting 99% awesomeness and then once it hits the final, we'll see how it goes. hehee
Being on the other island is still one that folks are arguing about; to me, the outriggers and the sheer distance from Locke to the island is huge and the only way that's possible is if they're on the other island. Granted, we haven't seen all of the original island, so it could be that they're just way out there, but this would explain why they were hanging out by the Hydra too.
"Widmore made Locke 8 years older on his passport than his actual DOB"- Damn! good catch! 8! the numbers!
well, Peggy Bundy and Katey Segal are pretty alike as Katey Segal did play Peggy Bundy on "Married with Children." hehehhee
I think it was just the pressure that Locke felt; not only does he think he can't bring them back, but because of his failure, EVERYBODY on the island could very well die because of it. I don't think he was nearly as damaged as pre-walkabout, but just disappointed that he was told he was special and a chosen person, and at that point, nothing was working out for him.
Ben's involvement is still shocking; i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, which i'll probably regret, but despite his shenanigans, he's always acted out of best interest in the island. But that scene was just INSANE.
See, I would think that Ben would already know about Hawking. I dunno why, but he always says he always has a plan. Maybe he was actually out of the loop on this one though; maybe we'll find out next week!
Yeah, oops! I did leave it out! I enjoyed that scene as it's pretty much the final push that Jack needs to start his creepy long bearded antics. I did like that scene as it finally shut Jack up a little bit.
Regarding the massacre: I was just going off the timeline at lostpedia's wiki site. They have a pretty comprehensive and you can check it out here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
They get their info I believe from DVD commentaries, Lost experience, and other things.
Thanks for reading! take it easy!!
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| lukeyloves |
| 2009-02-27 09:08 (UTC) |
| (no subject) |
| daniel juliet |
|
It's interesting what you said about John becoming a pawn in the Widmore-Ben rivalry, as that is exactly how I thought of him after watching 316. When I found out that Locke was merely acting as a replacement for Christian's dead body, I thought that this info may cause another of Locke's destiny-related crises; eg., attempting to shoot himself in the DHARMA pit, bashing on the hatch door after Boone's accident. I think his suicide attempt in this episode was a reaction to the failure that he said he was, not a fulfillment of Richard's instructions that he had to die.
Regarding Ben killing Locke after hearing him mention Hawking, I think that, maybe, her involvement is what requires Locke's death, and it is not a result of Ben's resentment/jealousy. For example, Ben may know that Hawking has the ability to find the Island but has written her off as a way to get there because her methods may include the sacrifice of someone. However, after hearing Locke mention her, Ben realises that this is what needs to happen after all, and that is why Locke was going to kill himself. Realising that he has convinced Locke not to go through with the suicide, Ben now has to kill John with his own hands in order to fulfill that requirement. I can't really explain it better than that, sorry :P
I was just wondering about the last time Walt and Locke saw each other. Apart from when taller-ghost Walt visited Locke at the DHARMA pit, the last time I think they were in the same place together was at the beach, before the launching of the raft in Exodus. No real theory here, just reminding myself just how long it's been since the 'Locke mentoring Walt' storyline.
Is that picture of the plane wreckage from this episode? I don't remember seeing it. Also, you mentioned Locke's body being found in New York City; I thought his hotel (where he was killed) was in California?
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-02-27 15:09 (UTC) |
| Another great recap! |
Very detailed as always. I guess we now know who shoots at Sawyer and co. from the other boat.
Raven Maniac from the Spawn Board
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| whitebrowgigs |
| 2009-02-27 19:30 (UTC) |
| Re: Another great recap! |
| Conan |
somebody mentioned this too and I don't know if i buy it: i thought the boat shooting at them looked to have more people. And why would they shoot at people they don't know, especially if it's sun, locke, and frank, and co?
Thanks for reading!
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-02-27 19:13 (UTC) |
| (no subject) |
"Regarding Ben killing Locke after hearing him mention Hawking, I think that, maybe, her involvement is what requires Locke's death, and it is not a result of Ben's resentment/jealousy."
I maintain that Ben decided to kill Locke because Jin being alive gave Ben a way back to the island (through Sun). Re-watch Ben's reaction to hearing that Jin is alive and that there is proof. Up until that point, Locke was Ben's only way to convince any of the O6 to go back, but he was also a threat to Ben's leadership of the Others when they did go back. The mention of Hawking surprised Ben because he didn't expect that Locke would know about her - I'm sure he also didn't want that information to get out. The thing that bugs me is that Ben obviously didn't realize that Locke would be resurrected by the island (Ben after killing Locke: I'll miss you John. I really will). I think he felt that with Locke dead, he would resume leadership of the Others upon his return.
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That's a good observation about how Ben's demeanor changed about the ring. I guess when you add up the ring and knowing about Hawking, Ben was in the clear and figured he could kill Locke, but leading the Others still doesn't make sense to me cos if he wanted to lead them, he would have sent John off the island in the s 4 finale.
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-02-27 21:29 (UTC) |
| (no subject) |
Ben already knew about Hawking. She gave him 70 hours to find the O6 and convince them to go back to the island. John became a means to that end.
I have updated my theory. I hope this makes more sense.
When Ben found that Jin was alive, he realized he did not need John to get himself and the O6 back to the island. Then, when he realized that John knew about Eloise, he figured that John must have learned about her from Widmore. Ben could not allow John to help Widmore reach the island, so it was curtains for John.
It still does not make sense that Ben doesn't realize that John will be resurrected on the island.
Side note: You may have covered this previously, but I never realized that Faraday's named the mouse in his time-travel experiments Eloise.
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ah, very true, but if memory serves, the 70 deadline wasn't given until AFTER he killed Locke.....right? This is so confusing!
My question though is why would Widmore need John to get back to the island? If he already knew about Eloise, why not just go to her, especially if they know each other? I do like your idea about Ben though; i'm still hoping he had a reason for killing John.
Yeah, Ben screwed the pooch on this one. He has never understood Locke's connection to the island.
and yes, I covered that before.
Thanks for reading!
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I gotta agree with the failure statement; he feels the pressure of having not only the fate of the island in his hands, but the fate of all his friends who are still there too.
This is a really good idea regarding a sacrifice; I'm in that area too although i'm not sure why Ben wouldn't believe her though as she is the only one that can get them back to the island. I understand what you're saying though!
I think you're right too about the last time they saw each other was right before Walt and co sailed off in the s 1 finale. It had been a while and it was great to see them chatting again.
According to the obituary from s 3, (see my long winded s 1-3 blog from January 27th, 2008), the obituary says New York and Bentham had a son.
and the scene with the wreckage happened really early in the episode, but it is there.
Thanks for reading!
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-02-28 18:01 (UTC) |
| Regarding the license plate SZU-766.. |
I think this is a reference to The Stand - check out the following page
http://www.slipups.com/items/307.html
Also I guess it should be noted that Psalm 76:6 -- At your rebuke, O God of Jacob, both horse and chariot lie still
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| whitebrowgigs |
| 2009-03-04 04:21 (UTC) |
| Re: Regarding the license plate SZU-766.. |
| Hai Smokey |
Nice catch on the reference to THE STAND. I don't know what it means though; maybe something apocalyptic with LOST?
And I really like that catch the Bible Psalm: perhaps the horse and chariot reference John's transportation around town?
Thanks for reading!
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| poty |
| 2009-03-01 02:19 (UTC) |
| (no subject) |
| wow |
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Just to say that this is the first time I read your blog and I'm loving it!!! Thanks so much for the hard work you put in to it... I'm gonna keep coming back!!!
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Hey, another number - Widmore said if John needed to call him, to press 2-3 on the phone!
(came here via lost_tv, love your use of screencaps and such!)
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Already had that one posted (right beneath the second pic of Bentham's passport a bit above). Thanks for posting though and thanks for reading!!
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-03-02 06:11 (UTC) |
| Is It Locke, Or Is It SmokeyRex??? |
Greetings My Friend! Pierre Chang Guy back with a very very bizarre thought process that I want your opinion on!
First of all a quick comment on your response on being a "fanboy" on Watchmen. There will always be a part of you, no matter how old you get that will be a "fanboy!" Watchmen comes out March 6, My 53rd birthday is March 8. If the NY Times gives it a good review, I am dragging my wife to see it on Sunday my B-Day. Fanboys are just like we old hippies, we don't die just cut our hair! LOL
Leap of Faith has always been a central theme of Lost!
After the first episode you said that you thought Miles was Chang's son. I wrote you a few weeks later, after Miles nose started bleeding that I had thought you were reaching originally, but it looks like you were right. A Leap Of Faith!
My STRATEGO theory was also a leap of faith that looks like I was correct, I feel validated!
In any great literature or continuing story line Continuity is a key! Sherlock Holmes, Miss Marple, Superman, there were always constants ( Not Daniel's kind, continuity constants!) I stopped reading DC comic books right after the Dark Knight series ended in 1986, because the DC Universe rebooted. No more Superboy, no kryptonite, the continuity was gone. For young people it did not matter to a 30 year old, it was a turnoff.
Okay, so if you agree with that statement, then we now have a possible continuity problem with Lost!
You and I both agree that Yemi was the Smoke Guardian (you use the word monster, I don't think it is a monster. Locke saw it the first time, and said it was beautiful! Ekko the first time it approached him it went away. When it morphed into Yemi, it JUDGED Ekko did not deserve to live. Monsters do not have sense of right and wrong, they just destroy, hence to me Guardian is a more apt term! Make sense?)
We also both wrote a few weeks ago we thought Christian was Smokey not the real Christian. So now we have a conflict, Is Locke Locke or is it Smokey?
Okay we know at least Cesar and Ilana have seen Locke, but both Locke and Claire have seen Christian (and of course Jack,but let's stay away from that.)
So to shorten my story and reach my point, either Christian is Christian, or Locke is Smokey, continuity has to stay the same. This is either Whacked, or I have made another Good Guess. Your Thoughts!!!
Until Next Time!!! Keep Up the Great Work!!!
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| whitebrowgigs |
| 2009-03-04 04:28 (UTC) |
| Re: Is It Locke, Or Is It SmokeyRex??? |
| jack Dance |
I thought I had replied to this already; maybe it got deleted or something?!?!! I dunno, but i'll do it again!
I have my tickets to a midnight showing of WATCHMEN on thursday evening. I've read many reviews, most REALLY REALLY positive and a few negatives. I'm pretty hopeful about it though!
Thanks for the Miles theory confirmation. I'm still wondering exactly how he gained these powers to communicate with the dead. Maybe that will be explored a bit more?
Regarding your Smoke monster theory, we're getting to know more about it and I still think it does have the ability to judge everybody, but it's still mechanical somehow as it still makes those noises when it's running around the jungle.
Regarding what's going on with Locke and Christian: I think Locke is the REAL Locke and Christian is still smokey. Why I think this is kinda hard to explain so i'll do my best: we don't know if Christian had any contact with the island BEFORE this all happened, so I can't imagine the island resurrecting Christian, especially since he was such a bad person to begin with. Locke has to take care of the island and it seems like smoke ghosts can't really interact or do much with solid objects, Locke would have to be Locke, in my opinion at least.
So, yeah, my thought is that Locke has been resurrected by the island due to his importance, whereas the island is just using Christian. Also, one thing to note is that christian has changed clothes, out of his burial outfit from Sydney and from what we saw him in during season 1. I don't think he has a cache' of clothes on the island, it's just the monster changing his looks. That's my take.
Thanks for reading!!!
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| (Anonymous) |
| 2009-03-04 12:01 (UTC) |
| Re: Is It Locke, Or Is It SmokeyRex??? |
Brilliant!!! Hence the continuity stays intact!!!! Thanks Brother Let me know about Watchmen!!!
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